Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/13/1999 08:03 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 159 - PERS PEACE OFFR STATUS CORRECTION EMPLOYE CHAIR JAMES brought before the committee the next item of business, House Bill No. 159, "An Act granting certain employees in correctional facilities status as peace officers under the public employees' retirement system." Number 0096 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor, told members he was amazed when he went through the kitchen at Spring Creek Correctional Center, Alaska's maximum-security prison, to discover that most people working there, including the cooks, were inmates. He has heard of a couple of instances where inmates confiscated kitchen utensils to sharpen into tools to pick locks, or to use as weapons. An employee had called and asked Representative Davis why the employee's retirement benefits are different from those of correction officers. When Representative Davis started checking, it appeared that when the statute was written and the correctional officers were negotiating, they apparently just had a better union than the other employees had. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS pointed out that dangers to these employees are as high as dangers to correctional officers. However, the latter are better trained to deal with violence or in detecting confiscations. It appears that this is an inequity that needs to be addressed. The bill, therefore, is equity legislation that designates these employees in the prison as "public safety officers," which is, he believes, the term that put the correctional officers, police officers and parole officers into the retirement category of "peace officers." REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS explained that currently these employees must work 30 years in order to retire, whereas correctional and peace officers have a 20-year requirement. The legislation allows those who have been employed to "buy" previous years. There is no fiscal note yet because of the time it has taken the department to do its actuarials and determine the difference in costs. Number 0191 CHAIR JAMES asked how the education of the correctional officers and the other employees differs. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS replied that he isn't sure, although he is certain that they don't go through the police training academy. CHAIR JAMES remarked that she has a problem with the 20-year retirement. She had worked ten years for General Foods, where a 55-year-old person could retire after 15 years; she compares the kinds of benefits they had then, which she had believed to be quite good, to the kinds we have now. She asked how the retirement benefits for a person employed for 20 years under the Public Employees' Retirement System (PERS) would compare to that person's wages. Number 0227 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS referred to an unspecified document and said, "An employee may purchase credit for past employment as a correctional facility employee by paying the difference between what their contributions to retirement were, 6.3 percent - so that's the correctional facility employees - and what they would have been if the service was being counted as that of a peace officer, seven and a half percent of their compensation." CHAIR JAMES asked what the actual retirement check amount is after 20 years. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS deferred to Deb Davidson. Number 0242 DEB DAVIDSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant to Representative Gary Davis, Alaska State Legislature, told members that each person receives a different amount at retirement, based upon that person's income while working for the state and the number of years of service. The average monthly income is figured from a person's three highest years of income. For regular state employees, she believes, 2 percent of that amount is then multiplied times the number of years worked, up to ten years, plus 2.25 percent of that average monthly income for 10 to 20 years, and then 2.5 percent of that income for the number of years over 20. CHAIR JAMES asked what an average amount of retirement income would be after 20 years, compared to that person's wages. Number 0277 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he ventures to guess that it is between 40 and 50 percent, perhaps more, of the three highest years. REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY suggested that the employees in question probably earn around $30,000 per year. If that were the high average, after 20 years a person would receive perhaps $1,600 or $1,700 per month. [He later corrected this to $1,270 per month.] CHAIR JAMES said that is generous. She recounted some of her own history, then suggested that perhaps people should be encouraged to be entrepreneurs, not just employees. A person who starts work at 20 is too young to retire at 40, she added, and those who retire at age 40 often do something else. She said the amount being paid includes both pay and retirement. Number 0312 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA thanked the sponsor for introducing HB 159 and recognizing the difference between this type of job and others. As someone who has spent a lot of time in facilities, she said, there is an incredible amount of stress just from being in the facility and "locked down." From talking with people in these positions, there are high burnout rates, and it is sometimes difficult to find people to do these jobs. She told the sponsor that she assumes he had looked at a lot of jobs and decided that this group is particularly deserving of this kind of bill. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS replied that he isn't sure how many inequities are out there; this is one he was familiar with and had looked into; some employees had indicated to him that they had been trying to get some equity in this for a number of years. Representative Davis told Chair James that he is sure many people share her concern. He restated the desire for equity between these employees and the correctional officers, then indicated he could find out about the differences in training. Number 0350 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN declared a conflict, noting that a brother-in-law and a sister-in-law are cooks in correctional facilities, one at the McLaughlin Youth Center and one at the Cook Inlet Pre-Trial Facility. He said he hadn't heard from either of those relatives that they feel threatened, despite fairly extensive talks with both of them. CHAIR JAMES commented that she knows of some people who make almost more money now than when they were working, and that causes her a lot of trauma. Number 0396 REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY corrected his earlier statement. He said that for a $30,000-a-year employee, it would come to about $1,270 a month for 20 years of service in a prison-type facility, which doesn't seem like much money. CHAIR JAMES said that is different from the numbers she has heard. She asked testifiers to limit testimony to three minutes. Number 0406 FRANCES REILLY, Educational Coordinator, Wildwood Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Kenai that she has been at Wildwood almost 15 years; if she retires after 30 years, she will be 76 years old. She has as much contact with inmates as correctional officers do, yet she receives no self-defense training. Inmates come through her open door all day long. She has classrooms on all floors, including one in the basement; although she doesn't put female contract teachers there, she commonly uses it herself. She supervises 13 inmates at their work assignments, among them murderers, rapists, child molesters and drug dealers. Ms. Reilly concluded, "Our jobs are as stressful as correctional officers', and I feel that a 20-year retirement is reasonable and fair for us." Number 0442 HAL FIMPLE, Food Service Manager, Wildwood Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Kenai, noting that he had worked there about 14 years. In his department are about 65 inmates, who have the use of knives; in addition, hundreds of other items in the kitchen could be used as weapons. Although Representative Ogan's relatives may not be afraid, his own employees are. In the Lower 48, about 85 percent of all prison riots begin in food service areas. Over the past 14 years, he himself has been involved in many confrontations between inmates, or between inmates and staff. MR. FIMPLE pointed out that support staff, in almost any institution, are as responsible as anyone else, including the superintendent, for the safety and security of the institution. Furthermore, some support staff have more direct contact with inmates than do some correctional officers. The "no frills" law coming July 1 will make jobs even more difficult and situations more volatile, because the institution will no longer allow smoking; they are already experiencing problems from that. Mr. Fimple told members that passage of HB 159 is long-overdue, then stated, "Many of you have asked us to support you in the past, which we did. And now, we are asking you to support us." He asked that members please not draw a parallel between working in a correctional institution, supervising convicted felons, and working in a downtown department store. Number 0476 CHAIR JAMES responded that she certainly sees the comparison between correctional officers and others who work in the prison. In addition, she believes that police officers and correctional officers do put their lives on the line, about which she is concerned. The other issue is a side issue, she added, that only has to do with money. Number 0485 MARY SANDY, Administrative Clerk, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward. She described herself as the "up-front person" who deals with visitors. She told members that she and her family worry about riots, about the "no frills" law and the reaction inmates will have to removal of cigarettes, and about infectious diseases, because of the high rate of airborne and bloodborne pathogens that she is exposed to daily. She feels as much at risk working with the inmates' families as being around the inmates themselves, as the families may blame those who work at the prison. However, she is not exempt from dealing with prisoners directly; if she is asked to go into the inmate area, she goes. She is concerned that the prisoners are a lot larger than her, and probably a lot angrier. Ms. Sandy stated, "I wouldn't want anyone to retaliate on me. I live in a small community. Our names are in the community paper all the time; the inmates have access to that. And I do feel that I take a great risk coming to work every day." Number 0514 RANDY BLUM, Food Service Supervisor, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward that kitchen staff never get away from the prisoners; there is high danger, as well as high stress. In contrast, a correctional officer who starts to suffer from burnout may be able to work at a post without daily contact with prisoners. Mr. Blum stated, "We do not run for the front door - as has been said in the Anchorage Daily News - when something happens. Unfortunately, it could be that the slider just went locked, and we're locked inside." He explained that if an inmate's attitude skills are not up to par, he must terminate that prisoner's work status, which under the "no frills" law will change that person's whole life. The tension when terminating such a prisoner is extremely high, and it is very dangerous. Staff members at Spring Creek have been attacked, and one never returned after she was attacked. Mr. Blum concluded, "In a combat situation, everybody gets paid by their rank, but everybody gets the hazardous pay and the benefits of being in that situation. I just think the support staff should get that." Number 0544 GREG HORTON, Plumber, Maintenance Department, Wildwood Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Kenai. He agreed that they are in direct daily contact with the inmates, 25 to 40 of whom work in the maintenance department, where there is every piece of equipment and every tool required to run such a facility. He emphasized the stress from hiring and firing the prisoners, as well as trying to run a skilled trade with them as workers. For example, he had to break up one fight and has experienced numerous verbal conflicts with inmates over procedures and security items. To his knowledge, the plumber he replaced four years ago is still on a medical disability from breaking up a fight. Mr. Horton concluded, "It seems like we're second-class citizens at the facilities in this respect; we're not treated with the same respect as the COs [correctional officers]. I know in the past, when the state had more money, the maintenance department was sent through the academy down in Juneau. But through cuts and whatever else ... we don't have that training anymore." Number 0576 ED LINDQUIST, Registered Nurse and Nurse II, Wildwood Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Kenai, indicating he has been employed there 15 and a half years. The nurses are not given any kind of self-defense training, he told members, yet the potential for threatening situations exists daily, starting from the time they enter the building. The diabetics come in at 6:30 a.m., as soon as the doors open, and staff are left alone with the inmates throughout the day. Oftentimes, inmates wanting pain medication or certain treatments don't like to hear what the nurses have to tell them. Mr. Lindquist stated: I'd say if there isn't a difference between our jobs and the corrections officers' jobs, why is that we have four panic buttons located throughout the medical office? We have one door in, and the same door is the only way to get out. Every day, it's just a stressful day, every day. You just never know what's going to happen. Depending on the day, when you have a sick call, you might see anywhere from six to a dozen people within a two-hour time period. You have medication passes, which are passed through a window grating .... You're called everything in the book, by the inmates. MR. LINDQUIST referred to a similar previous bill, and he expressed hope that HB 159 will pass this time. Number 0605 WAYNE ROMBERG, Food Service Foreman, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward. He pointed out that very few workers begin at age 20, because the state is looking for skills, whether for nursing, maintenance or volume food service. In his job, he is expected to train inmates, 90 of whom are employed for food service there; it is unlike any volume food service he has done, including jobs out on the Aleutian chain. When correctional officers work a night shift from 11 p.m. until 6 a.m., the prisoners are locked down, yet he himself is there five days a week, seven and a half hours a day, and in contact with the prisoners all the time. Number 0624 CAREY QUIRING, Administrative Clerk III, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward that she definitely supports HB 159. The suggested indebtedness is an attainable goal for current employees, she said, and she doesn't believe it would incur a debt to the state of Alaska. The turnover rate is high for many employees there; she believes that HB 159 would cut down on the transfer of employees to other departments, which now costs the state money in training replacements. MS. QUIRING noted that they work daily side-by-side with correctional and probation officers. She agreed that medical, maintenance and kitchen staff are required to be around prisoners all of the time, which brings a risk of exposure to diseases. Even for those with little direct contact, there is still indirect contact. Through reports, pictures, investigations, photocopying, filing, et cetera, staff are required to process documentation that involves the prisoner population, which Ms. Quiring believes is part of the stress for some. MS. QUIRING explained that as Class I employees in a 24-hour facility, they aren't allowed to strike; without the support staff, she doesn't believe that the facility would be able to function. She pointed out that support staff can be called to report for duty in emergency situations. For example, as a clerk she was called upon during an escape situation, to assist with support functions. Risk of hostage situations causes further stress. In addition, the number of correctional officers is down, so the COs aren't there to protect and support the staff, or the prisoners, which increases stress. Number 0687 CHAIR JAMES commented that she herself could not work there or do what Ms. Quiring does, and that she understands those kinds of pressures in the workplace. She asked whether the turnover is because of stress, or because of better wages or retirement benefits elsewhere. MS. QUIRING replied that she believes all of those are reasons. She has worked in the personnel office for 9 of her 11 years at Spring Creek. She sees people leaving all the time. There is no opportunity for promotion for some, whereas others leave because of the pay. She believes that a "20-year-and-out" retirement will be an incentive to keep people at the facility, and will lower the turnover rate. CHAIR JAMES asked whether there is any program whereby people can move into a higher classification, for example, by taking a class. MS. QUIRING said that is limited to only a couple of the class series; it is not a possibility for most of the positions at the facility. Number 0696 SHERRY APPEL, Education Coordinator, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward. She noted that in 11 years there, she'd had two weeks' training, only part of which had to do with security. She has been told that in an emergency she should hide under her desk, she said, because the inmates could break through the window and the door. She has also been told that she is expendable, that the security of the institution is primary, and that in an emergency they would secure the institution first and then try to get the staff in her area out, because she works directly with the inmates. MS. APPEL explained that she supervises inmates and has the responsibility of firing inmates, who sometimes are angry. She stated, "I've been in situations where inmates have confronted me, and I've had to depend on my assertiveness to back them down the hallway to where the COs are, so that they could take care of it." Ms. Appel stated: I believe that we have equal risks, unequal training. We work alongside the probation officers, who have a very similar job to mine, except that they're allowed to spend a lot of time on the other side of the slider, on the other side of the door, where there are no inmates, in the records area. And I have no responsibilities on the other side of that door. Also, in case of an emergency, we are not allowed to leave the institution, even though we are support staff. When we had a sit-down situation, when I first came to work there, we were all required to stay until they considered the situation under control; none of us were allowed to leave the institution, for the security of the institution. And I've been told that in case of an emergency that I might be required to work in a control room or to do other duties such as that. ... We are not given any extra pay for hazardous duty, or there's just no parity with us and the correctional officers that we work with. Number 0736 LORREL LUDY, Education Coordinator, Wildwood Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Kenai, noting that he is fairly new there, having worked there a year and a half. He pointed out the drastic differences working in the prison environment as opposed to the outside world. When he went to work there, staff were told that every employee is responsible for the security of the institution. To him, HB 159 boils down to the simple concept of equal benefits for equal risk, because there is definite risk shared by all support staff and the correctional officers. MR. LUDY stated, "When I went to work there, I found that there was a very strong feeling among staff members - a fear, if you will, from the inmates. We work with these inmates day in and day out, and we recognize in our mind all the time that someday they will not be incarcerated there; they will be out on the street, ... free to do as they please." He explained that staff members wear name badges that contain their date of birth, and some turn it around backwards so that the date doesn't show. Staff are also very sensitive about not letting their Social Security numbers get out, "so we don't get scammed." Mr. Ludy recounted: I made the mistake in the dining hall of asking one co-worker there where he lived. And, of course, an inmate was walking by and could have heard me ask it. ... It was reported to my boss in the correctional center there, because this particular colleague of mine was so concerned about answering that question of where he lived, just by chance ... some inmate might hear him, and it would be a stress to his family or children. So, there's a lot of risk involved, and the staff is very sensitive to that. MR. LUDY said in some ways support staff are under more stress and conflict than correctional officers are. For example, COs receive training in handling aggression, plus tools such as pepper spray and handcuffs, which the support staff do not. Support staff also have a lot more contact than COs with inmates in isolated situations, behind closed office or classroom doors. Number 0776 CHAIR JAMES asked what information is on the name tags. MR. LUDY restated that some staff members are sensitive to the date of birth. The tags also contain the person's name, job title, weight and height. He emphasized the sensitivity, stress and underlying fear about letting inmates know this personal information, because it could come back on the staff later, after the inmates are released. Number 0794 GAIL SELA, Nurse III, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward that she has worked there almost three years out of her 28 years in nursing. She emphasized the real inequity of benefits. Whether or not people favor 20-year retirement benefits, a certain number of staff members that work in corrections have been given this benefit, she said, while others have not been allowed to have it. MS. SELA agreed with the sponsor that better representation in their union probably had helped the COs and probation officers. She stated, "Speaking for my union, which is GGU [General Government Unit], they primarily represent administrative staff and nursing, medical, which, you would see, would be a large number of women. ... Having [been] in nursing, and struggling with pay and benefit wages for 28 years, we have all come to the conclusion, many times, that often jobs or groups that are primarily women are discriminated against; not only do they usually have less pay, but the benefits are less. So, it doesn't surprise me ... that we don't have this benefit available to us yet." MS. SELA outlined the risks of nursing at Spring Creek. It is not uncommon to have 10 or 11 inmates in the medical department at one time; the dental facility is there, as well, so it gets pretty crowded at times. There is an officer assigned, and there is usually one officer in the medical department, who has a fairly large area to cover there, as well as answering the phones and helping out in the gym, if needed. There is an infirmary at Spring Creek, where patients may spend 24 hours or more. If the officer cannot accompany a nurse back in the infirmary, because there may be inmates in the medical clinic area, for example, a nurse will be back in the infirmary with two or three inmates, with two locked doors separating them from the correctional staff. Ms. Sela stated: Another one of our duties is that ... if an inmate in House I, which is a segregation unit, has to be taken down for any reason, eight to ten officers suit up in SWAT-looking attire, with helmets and gas masks, because we're going to go over the House I, and they might have to pepper-spray an inmate to get him out of his cell. They all go in there together, 8, 9, 10 of them, 11 of them, videotaping the whole thing. You can imagine ... the status of the situation when they do get the inmate out of the cell, how agitated, angry - if you've ever seen anybody get pepper spray in their face. It is at that point that they then ask the nurse - that is only in her "scrubs," usually, for the most part - to go in and evaluate this inmate as to whether or not he's going to require medical care. To evaluate somebody, you can't do that through glass doors; you have to kneel down next to them and take a look at them, and sometimes we have to wash their eyes out. I know that ... at CIPT [Cook Inlet Pre-Trial] years ago, there were two nurses that were severely beaten by an inmate in a "mod" up there. Both of those nurses have never returned to corrections. At Wildwood this last year, there was a nurse sexually assaulted. None of these things make the paper, ... but they happen. We are told that we will never leave the institution if there's a riot; we will stay there till that ... is cleared and everybody is safe. ... We're part of ... the response team, and we're part ... of the plans. And, you know, it was very upsetting to read in the paper that one of our own personnel people, from Anchorage or Juneau, said that we would be heading for the door if there was ever a riot. I would like to invite you to visit prisons in your state before making a determination. I know that Representative Davis did this, and we did appreciate that. And I don't think you can really appreciate the dangers that we're all in. And to Representative Ogan, I'm not surprised that your family members have not spoken to you about their feelings. I very rarely share the fears that I have with my family, because I don't want them to fear for me. So, I'm not surprised at that. Most of the time, I'm defending my job. And just one other thing: We do turn over a lot. ... A medical staff turns over frequently. I'm always having to hire and train, and that is for many reasons. Pay is one. ... We're lower-paid than the hospitals in this state right now. I make less as a supervisor than the average wage for a Providence nurse. So, pay is one of the issues. And I do think that having some better benefits might improve ... our retention. TAPE 99-22, SIDE B Number 0001 CHAIR JAMES asked, "Of all the jobs you've had, which one have you enjoyed the most?" MS. SELA replied, "The one I'm in right now." Number 0014 CLIFTON REAGLE, Electronics Technician, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward that he had worked on the facility as it was being built, and he has worked there since it opened. He asked how many committee members had been to Spring Creek Correctional Center. CHAIR JAMES inquired, then informed Mr. Reagle that she was the only one. She said she had been to other facilities, as well. MR. REAGLE told members that it had taken him ten years to qualify to work at his position, including three years in the military, two years of schooling, and five or six years working in the field, with no retirement benefits. He told members, "We're all skilled trades professionals, and we can't just walk in off the street. So, we spend a lot of time working to get these positions with the state. So, we've already started a long time ago, as far as I'm concerned." MR. REAGLE emphasized that the particular prisoner population at Spring Creek makes it a much worse place to work than other Alaskan facilities. Almost from the day Spring Creek opened, he has been verbally threatened. He was in a "mod" by himself with 100 inmates, for example, and a prisoner didn't like Mr. Reagle's coming into his room to fix a smoke detector. "And he came out, fists clenched, muscles flexed - he was about twice my size - and he acted like he was going to pound me into the ground if I ever came into his room again," Mr. Reagle said. "And I had to stand my ground, by myself, with no help. That was a real eye-opener for me, in what my career was going to be at Spring Creek. ... It started that way, and it hasn't gotten much different." MR. REAGLE explained that he is required to go into medical areas to work on electronic equipment, "air handling," to ensure that diseases are going out and not recirculating within the building; he is therefore exposed daily. He referred to Gail Sela's testimony and said he has also been exposed to gas. Furthermore, he has been subjected to verbal harassment from locked-down inmates when required to work in House I, including having several inmates yell at him nonstop for three or four hours at a time, all day long, calling him every name in the book while he is just there doing his job. That is the kind of attitude and behavior these inmates take towards staff, he said. MR. REAGLE divulged that his fellow employees have had feces and urine thrown on them, for which he suggested there should be a death penalty. He then informed members: Two inmates cut and bashed each other almost to death in our maintenance shop, right in front of one of our guys. They left the whole shop in a pool of blood. They took each others' ears off. ... One guy had a retractable knife, was actually trying to cut the other guy's head off, and fortunately it was a retractable razor knife, and the blade kept slipping in, and his hands were so bloody he couldn't get the blade out far enough to cut the guy's head off. Okay, this is the kind of stuff that we're required to work with in the maintenance shop. We had another incident where two guys went at it, and another ... maintenance staff member was hurt. He got in the middle of it, he was all stressed out, something popped in his head - he hasn't been right since. We've had medical staff physically attacked in the freezers and been forced to medically retire. We could go on and on all day like this. It's just a dangerous place to work, and I don't think I could work under those conditions for 30 years. I've already put in 10 to get there, and I've been there 11; that's 22 years so far, and I'm not even halfway. If I quit at 20 years, I don't get medical, and there's other benefits that I don't get. So, it's not just a matter of pay; it's a matter of the things that I'm going to need to support myself and my family after I quit. I just would ask that you support this bill. MR. REAGLE told members that he supports "no frills," as prison should be a punishment, not a place for inmates to be happy and comfortable. However, what the legislature begins, he himself has to carry out in his job, and it is difficult. He asked for members' support in this, then concluded, "We're not asking you to give us a lot, and we're a small portion of the state employees. If you take a count of how many of us there are, support staff, it's not that big of a number, and we're willing to pay our part of it to make this happen." Number 0143 REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY remarked that as a college student he had the opportunity to work in the Oregon Correctional Institute in Salem. He stated, "I understand what the feeling is like when the door closes and you hear the 'clunk.' But the reality of it was that I got to go home at night to a different place. I understand your situation a little bit, but not nearly as much ... as you have expressed." He asked how old Mr. Reagle would be if he were to retire after 30 years. MR. REAGLE said he would be 60 years old. He added, "But to be honest with you, at this point, I've been going through some real soul-searching in the last couple years, after ten years of listening to inmates. And I really don't think I'm going to make it 30 years at a prison. ... It beats you down, and you get tired of it. And the older you get, the less energy you have to fight it." Number 0173 CHAIR JAMES acknowledged that her own visits to prisons have been on tours. Her first experience with a lock-down facility was at Oregon State Mental Hospital, where she worked for some time. Her second experience was as a foster parent, when they took foster children from the girls' reform school in Salem, Oregon. She doesn't like lock-down facilities, she said, and she certainly doesn't like to be with dangerous people. "So, we appreciate everything that you do," she added. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS referred to a letter of support in committee packets, dated April 2, 1999, from Byron Loomis, Trades Leadsman at Spring Creek Correctional Center. Representative Davis read from the second paragraph: "I supervise, hire and fire these same felons and have a major impact on their quality of life in this [institution]." Representative Davis commented on the stress and risk of firing a felon from a job. CHAIR JAMES responded that she is bothered that COs have training but support staff do not. She said she believes that is more important than money. Number 0241 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS noted that there had been testimony that these workers used to go through the academy. He said he assumes that budget cuts put people in a lot of this risk situation. CHAIR JAMES responded that she isn't sure they need to go through the academy, but she believes they need regular training and information about circumstances to be aware of. Number 0257 REPRESENTATIVE SMALLEY read from Mr. Loomis' letter, which stated, "For me to have to work 10 years longer than the corrections staff with the same conditions to receive a full pension is nothing short of a travesty." Testimony indicates that support staff have more prisoner contact than COs have, Representative Smalley noted; he agreed that it is a travesty. He added that although he is sure that they would like training, he believes that the benefits are long-overdue to be looked at. Number 0284 DON ETHERIDGE, District Council Laborers, came forward to testify on behalf of Local 71. He said he himself couldn't take working in the prisons. He recounted how he used to have to go to Lemon Creek Correctional Center, as part of his duties in building maintenance, on a fill-in basis. He had hated going out there, and he doesn't even like going out there now to visit with members. He stated that Local 71 supports this bill wholeheartedly. Number 0301 BRUCE MASSEY, Food Service Foreman, Lemon Creek Correctional Center, came forward to testify at length, noting that he is also the shop steward for Local 71. He said the testimony from staff at Spring Creek had been all-encompassing. He asked whether committee members had at least been to Lemon Creek Correction Center. CHAIR JAMES said she'd skipped that one, although she has been to many more than one. MR. MASSEY explained that he has been there ten years, noting that staff get "institutionalized" themselves. For example, he waits for doors to open at Nugget Mall, and he pulls out his elevator keys in the State Office Building. Mr. Massey addressed training, noting that he has taught karate in Juneau for 20 years. He told members, "There's no amount of training that is going to take you, or you, that is going to make you feel comfortable ... with the people that we deal with. You know, it'd be a good thing, but there's no way you're going to get a comfort level with it. ... So, there's always going to be that doubt in your mind that you are, in fact, in jeopardy when it comes down to firing this person, taking this person and definitely making a huge impact on his life." MR. MASSEY agreed that the main reason for prison disturbances is poor food service. For 365 days a year, three meals a day, they provide meals that must be of good quality, he said, and they cannot be late. The kitchen is also inspected by the Department of Environmental Conservation, although it isn't a big thing, because they have plenty of labor, and they pride themselves at Lemon Creek on keeping a clean kitchen. He himself trains people who run the gamut as far as literacy. For example, if he hands a guy a book, that person won't tell Mr. Massey he can't read. Rather, Mr. Massey must figure out how to not insult him and yet get this information, so that the inmate can become a more productive worker. "And we can work with things like that," he added. MR. MASSEY told members the kitchen is upstairs at Lemon Creek. "If there's a disturbance, their first thing is that they are going to slam the doors and I'm on my own," he said. In his ten years there, he has broken up a number of fights. He stated, "The last time I did wade into one, there was a knife involved. I was splattered with blood. So, consequently, I get to go through a series of tests to make sure that I'm not HIV-positive, which isn't a real pleasant thought, you know, going home to my wife and my children ...." He had been admonished somewhat by his superior for going into that fight, he said, rather than waiting for other staff. However, if he had waited five seconds, "the knife involved would have been back into the guy who initially took it on this young man." MR. MASSEY agreed that staffing is down; consequently, they have adjusted standards a great deal since he has been there. For example, at Lemon Creek, one officer upstairs is responsible for the kitchen and the dining hall, but must also go across the hall to watch the educational center, then go back in the back room to the hobby shop. That officer also can be called to assist on any number of transports in and around the building, such as a maximum security move, which requires two officers. MR. MASSEY pointed out that the kitchen is also the center for contraband. For example, sugar becomes "pruno," or jailhouse liquor, which is dangerous. He stated: The drugs aren't nearly as bad. If they're smoking "pot," you know, they might fight over a Twinkie or two, but ... they never get away with the booze. Once they have booze, there's a fight in the dorms; you know it's there. And ... the things they'll drink are just phenomenal; you would not believe what they'll drink. They found out that one of our soap containers was high in alcohol content; they all disappeared. MR. MASSEY explained that there is a mind set among the prisoners that most people aren't used to. He stated, "After you've been there a while, you begin to look at things in a very, very different manner. I'm a little unique: I like it there. I love my job. I was pretty much made for it. I was raised in Detroit. I brought a good sense of 'street smarts,' and I've been in kitchens since I was 15. So, it's what I really love to do." Mr. Massey said he looks for "that little spark, that little ray of light, in which I can take this young man, out of ... the hundreds that I train, and this kid might actually make it." He indicated that a number of former inmates have been placed in jobs, after being trained at the "Lemon Creek Cafe." He tries to provide those skills, because if they can't get a job, they'll be back in prison. MR. MASSEY pointed out that kitchen staff are continually threatened with legal issues involving demands about special diets, and their names may end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit. Number 0443 MR. MASSEY emphasized that the testimony from staff at Spring Creek is a daily reality. He couldn't do what the guards do, he said, which is sit there, watch and wait; he prefers to be active and productive. He has to take the same guys that the guards put their hands on and then escort down the hall, though, and give them knives. There are 26 inmates that work in the kitchen, and 12 to 15 knives that everybody uses. The knives are secured, he explained, and counted. However, during the day when the general population is not in the dining room, there are knives everywhere, including Chinese cleavers, ten-inch French knives, a scimitar and boning knives. However, the knives are the least of their worries, because the 27 knives in his cabinet are secured and get counted. "You take an industrial cook spoon, break the head off of it - now you've got a weapon," he stated. "And we can't count everything in the kitchen. We can't keep track of every little tool." He noted that the superintendent at Lemon Creek, Dan Carothers, has a trophy case in which he has a wide variety of weapons and drug paraphernalia. MR. MASSEY next referred to the testimony about inmates' constant yelling in the lock-down unit, and he stated, "That's the mind set we have. These guys have all the time in the world to simply think of, 'How can I mess with you?' 'How can I get at you?' 'Cause you made me mad, you fired me from my job." MR. MASSEY pointed out that someone could get into the Internet with a person's Social Security number and ruin that person's life. He emphasized that although some of the testimony may have sounded a bit paranoid, it is not. The staff are genuinely concerned about any information that might get out about them. For many, including him, it is from concern about their families. He indicated he is generally successful at keeping such concerns out of his mind, however. MR. MASSEY mentioned that a person walking down Franklin Street in Juneau, looking at 100 people, may be looking at 30 who have been in Lemon Creek Correctional Center. Lemon Creek is a collection center for prisoners who have committed crimes all over the state, and then they choose to release here. "So, we're kind of importing these people into the small town of Juneau," he said. "People in the village, wherever they ... committed their crime, they don't want them back, so that we get them funneled here. I'm sure ... Anchorage has very much the same thing going on." MR. MASSEY told members he has ten years of service, and he hopes he can make it to 30. However, he doesn't know that he can. This is a matter of equity, he emphasized. Although the support staff are dedicated, it boils down to this: 20 years would allow them to retire with some amount of sanity left. He concluded, "We think we could make that. The 30 years is out there, a little bit of a marathon." Number 0510 VINCENT O'CONNOR, Adult Probation Parole Officer, Department of Corrections; and President, Alaska State Employees Association / American Federal, State, County and Municipal Employees (ASEA/AFSCME), Local 52, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in support of HB 159. Employed by the Department of Corrections for 18 years, he emphasized that medical staff, clerical staff, maintenance staff and kitchen staff have the same levels of stress, and the same contact, as COs or parole officers, although the stress and contact may take different forms. Prison populations include long-term offenders who have nothing to lose, he said, as well as short-term offenders about whom the staff have very little working knowledge. Based on a person's classification-for-work records, the prisoners are placed for the needs of the institution to accomplish work, and this puts everyone in a position of jeopardy at times. MR. O'CONNOR referred to the issue of fairness and concluded, "I can't think of anybody in my career that has made 30 years in the correctional center, in some of these other job classifications." He added that the levels of stress usually result in higher turnover, which probably is not in the best interest of the employer, the state. Number 0550 GUY BELL, Director, Division of Retirement and Benefits, Department of Administration, came forward to explain why there is not yet a fiscal note. With him was Bill Church, retirement systems manager, who was working with the Department of Corrections (DOC) to get relevant information about the employees who would be affected by HB 159. Mr. Bell told members that the preliminary number is about 280 DOC employees who would be affected. Yesterday, they had received data on these employees to then turn over to their actuaries to get a cost estimate of HB 159. They had needed some detailed data, because calculating the total cost requires looking back over the employees' careers and determining the number of years each person worked, his or her age, and basic data to calculate cost on an individual basis. He expects to have that done in the next two or three days. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked whether it will cost more money. MR. BELL affirmed that, then explained why. Page 2, beginning at line 4, reads: "The indebtedness is equal to (1) the contributions to the system that the employee would have made if the service had counted as peace officer service, less (2) the contributions to the system that the employee actually made." The next sentence addresses the interest on that. Mr. Bell pointed out that the bill doesn't require the employee to make employer contributions that would have been required. Because it offers a better benefit, it also requires a higher employer cost. Effectively, this bill would mean that the past service cost to the employer would affect the employer's rate - in this case, the Department of Corrections or the state of Alaska. Therefore, it will affect the state's rate. Mr. Bell explained: Basically, the cost is greater because you're talking about a 20-year retirement, which means that a person draws a retirement benefit earlier, so they're getting a benefit for more years, through their life. ... Depending on which tier they were hired under, if they were hired originally in PERS before July 1 of 1986, they are also getting system-provided medical benefits, which the system, of course, pays for. And there is a different multiplier, as Representative Davis' staff mentioned, that a police officer in this system ... after ten years of service has a benefit multiplier of two-and-a-half percent per year of service; between 10 and 20 years for other PERS employees, it's two-and-a-quarter percent. So, after 20 years of service, a police officer position has a benefit entitlement of 45 percent of their average three-year salary, whereas for a 'other PERS employee,' it's forty-two-and-a-half percent. So, there's a two-and-a-half percent differential in the benefit. MR. BELL noted that a few employers besides the state of Alaska may be affected by this. He concluded, "There are some jail correctional facilities that are operated by other PERS employers - the North Slope Borough, the City of Dillingham, we believe, have correctional facilities. And the numbers I've given you do not include youth detention facilities. This would just, as we understand it, apply to adult corrections." Number 0615 CHAIR JAMES asked the sponsor whether it was his intent to not include the juvenile detention facilities. REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS said he hadn't given it much thought. CHAIR JAMES asked whether there were further questions of the Administration, then noted that three more people in Seward wished to testify. Number 0620 CHARLES PALMER, Employee, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward, saying that in 11 years, they've gone through 19 stewards, who had either quit, died or moved on. He said 80 percent of the inmates are hepatitis-positive, yet they are issued knives in order to do their jobs. It is just a matter of time, and he himself was assaulted once, right before prisoners were moved to the prison facility in Arizona. Number 0635 RICHARD SLAGLE, Employee, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward, saying he has been with the Department of Corrections for five and a half years. During that time, stewards have been grabbed by inmates and been damaged, either medically or mentally, to where they cannot come back to work around inmates. He mentioned the constant fear that something could happen, then explained, "We issue knives to inmates early in the morning. You don't know their attitude or their way of thinking for that day. They could be mad at one of their other inmates or something, and ... come in the kitchen and take out their revenge in the kitchen. ... The 20-year-and-out would be more beneficial. I believe you would have a better clientele of stewards in the kitchen, more alert, more aware. Thirty years with DOC in the kitchen is an impossibility for me, because ... I can tell the stress level is about -- for me, would be ten years." REPRESENTATIVE OGAN requested clarification about the hepatitis rate. MR. SLAGLE answered that about 80 percent are hepatitis-positive. He added, "We cannot discriminate against the inmate, as far as their AIDS or hepatitis. We work around knives. Inmates get nicked, cut. We issue Band-Aids. There's the threat of bloodborne pathogens. And we work more directly with the inmates than police officers do, because we're with them for a longer period of time. We hire them, we fire them. And we're more in direct ... contact with them, on a seven-and-a-half-hour basis." REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked what kind of hepatitis that is, and he requested clarification about these people working in the kitchen. MR. SLAGLE answered that it is B and C. He added, "As I've said, you cannot discriminate against a person for their medical reasons." CHAIR JAMES asked whether people with tuberculosis would get to work there. MR. SLAGLE restated that they cannot discriminate against personnel based on their medical condition. Number 0694 MIKE HARBAUGH, Plumber, Maintenance, Spring Creek Correctional Center, testified via teleconference from Seward, noting that he had been there four and a half years. He said it takes a special type of person to be able to work there. Correctional officers get a weeks' break, as they work 12 hours a day but week on, then week off. "We don't get that," Mr. Harbaugh noted. "We go home for two days. We come back and have to face it again, and work directly with the inmates." MR. HARBAUGH explained that he works in very small areas with felons, regularly. He started this job at age 42; he would like to think it took him nearly that long to obtain the background and commercial experience needed in such a large institution, where there are 478 toilets, 525 sinks, 64 showers, and the associated heating and plumbing, including water heaters. He was on the work list with Local 71 for four and a half years before getting this job, but he won't work there past 60 years of age. He believes that would be physically impossible, as it is too hard a job. MR. HARBAUGH told members the mental stress is tough. He stated, "I grew up in a tough place, on the west side of South Bend, went to high school where we had detectives carrying guns, and this was ... in the mid-to-late-60s. People got stabbed in my school." He said maybe that background helps him put up with the mental and physical abuse from inmates' bumping the staff, or yelling in the lock-down facility for hours at a time: "You're gonna die!" or "I'm gonna kill you!" MR. HARBAUGH reported that he does enjoy the job. He has had the benefit of seeing the fruition of training somebody who then gets a job after getting out. "They may be doing plumbing on your place this afternoon, I don't know," he added. Seeing people do better is one thing that keeps him at the job. The other is the medical benefits, which he needs. As he understands the 20-year program, he could get the benefits when he retires immediately, whereas with the 30-year program he would have to wait until age 65 to get medical benefits. He reminded members that he is susceptible to HIV and hepatitis. He works with effluent, crawling down manholes full of it and unplugging things, for a daily living. He concluded, "I'd just appreciate your support for this. Training would be nice, but the 20-year retirement is also something that's necessary and only fair." CHAIR JAMES closed public testimony. She asked the representatives from the Division of Retirement and Benefits if they could have a fiscal note by the coming Thursday; they said they would do their best. Chair James thanked all the participants, noting that the testimony had been very moving. [HB 159 was held over.]
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